Talk:Gabriel Attal

Clean-up

I changed some of the language of the article to be more readable and grammatically correct.

I stumbled upon the following: In 2009-2010, he went on a mission to Éric de Chassey, director of Villa Medici.

Can anyone let me know what this is supposed to mean? This is what the source says: "Après une mission en 2009-2010 auprès d’Eric de Chassey, alors directeur de la Villa Médicis à Rome, ce proche de Benjamin Griveaux, actuel porte-parole du gouvernement, intègre le cabinet de la ministre de la Santé, Marisol Touraine en 2012. Lui le plus jeune membre du cabinet Touraine rédige notamment les discours ministériels."

I don't quite understand what this "mission" is supposed to have been. If it was just a "trip" then I don't think it should be included in the article. Cheers XInolanIX (talk) 05:16, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

I know nothing of this particular case. In France, "chargé de mission" is a function (French "fonction") that a director (often a university president) may attribute for delegating some of his functions. This is not a position, because a chargé de mission keeps generally his main job, and, in many cases, the président has not the possibility of opening a specific position. For example, in a university, a professor may be "chargé de mission" by the président for the relations with other specific institutions, or for managing the security of the campus. Such a chargé de mission remains professor, even if his teaching functions are reduced. D.Lazard (talk) 08:35, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

References

What is his name?

• RaphaelQS has added de Couriss to Attal's name. I am not convinced that this is his full name. The French government calls him Gabriel Attal. And so does everyone else. If you search for "Gabriel Attal de Couriss" you get some sites saying that he uses the name or that he added de Couriss to his name (that is, it is not his birth name) but I cannot see any evidence that he actually is using it. For example, his signature on this page is Attal. Even The Guardian article, which is used as a source, calls him Attal only saying that he "uses the full name Gabriel Attal de Couriss". Unless we can find some examples of him actually using de Couriss, or officially being called de Couriss, I suggest we leave his name as Attal, with perhaps a note about The Guardian claim after the text about his mother in the early life and education section. MOS:FULLNAME incidentally is talking about Spanish surnames, which are different. Thoughts?

Southdevonian (talk) 12:40, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

With a little searching I have discovered the origin of the claim about Attal supposedly using the name de Couriss [1]. It comes from the book Crépuscule by Juan Branco. In the book Branco is very critical of Attal and says that he added de Couriss to his name at school as a affectation. This however is disputed by someone close to Attal who says it was only because, when his parents divorced (in 2000), his mother asked him to use her name alongside his father's name, adding that it is common in divorces. So it is not his official name, not even a nom de usage, as he doesn't actually use it, and is not therefore his full name. Southdevonian (talk) 13:14, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Failure on your part to find a source is not a valid point against another reliable source. The Guardian is extremely clear that his full name is "Gabriel Attal de Couriss". You may think they made a mistake, but your personal view on the matter isn't enough to overrule a reliable source:

He grew up in Paris with his three younger sisters and uses the full name Gabriel Attal de Couriss.

I'm going to politely ask you to put back his full name as it has been documented in the source, your attitude of reverting before opening the discussion in the talk page is very inappropriate. --RaphaelQS (talk) 13:32, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Reliable sources are not infallible. The French government calls him Gabriel Attal and they should know what their own prime minister is called. The French Wiki article calls him Gabriel Attal. Interestingly, there is a sentence in the French Wiki section on youth and studies saying that he added de Couriss to his name, sourced to Juan Branco's book, which has been flagged up as "insufficiently sourced". Juan Branco's book contains a lengthy attack on Attal and the bit about the name is part of this - and should not be repeated in Wikipedia. When Attal's parents divorced he was a child (ten or eleven years old) and had no choice about his name. It is not even clear if it is true that he used the name at school. There is, as far as I can find, no evidence of him using using de Couriss as an adult. So his name stays as Attal. Southdevonian (talk) 14:12, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

"There is, as far as I can find, no evidence of him using using de Couriss as an adult." French politicians often use other names than their full names. Marine Le Pen is actually "Marion Anne Perrine Le Pen" for example. We have a reliable source stating that his full name is "Gabriel Attal de Couriss". The fact that you have failed to find any source claiming that his full name is something else is completely irrelevant. I'll give you a few days, if after that I see no evidence of another source claiming that his full name is something else, then I'll use this one to update the article. RaphaelQS (talk) 15:34, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Marine Le Pen is not comparable. Le Pen is her surname name and she has always used the same one. Marion Anne Perrine are her Christian names and most people don't in everyday life use their middle names. In addition she has changed Marion to Marine, but again people sometimes use a variation of their first name. An example is Liz Truss. Southdevonian (talk) 01:31, 11 January 2024 (UTC)