Talk:Egyptian War on Terror in Sinai
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thoughts
[edit]This article is too similar to the 2012 Egyptian-Israeli border attack. Although created with good intentions, it basically has the same information as that article, and doesn't really offer anything new.
Thoughts?
--Activism1234 13:31, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
- The border attack article suffers from a lack of focus, though its understandable as many Israeli sources will focus on what is important to their readership. But the story was the attack on the barracks, the theft of the vehicles, and then the attempt to attack Israel, and now the Egyptian military's campaign to essentially re-take Sinai. The story was not the attack on Israel and everything else was just background information or after-effects. If you want an article on specifically the border attack then focus on that, and briefly discuss what happened before. But the other article is framing what is primarily a topic about the security situation in the Sinai in Israel-centric terms. Though I think this article should be retitled to something like 2012 Egyptian military campaign in the Sinai Peninsula. nableezy - 16:36, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
- Granted, I have no objections against briefly mentioning the operation in "Reactions" and pasting it here, as well as rewording a lot of this article since some of it seems to be straight out of references. Also, the border attack article uses a variety of sources, including Egyptian ones. I'd be fine with doing this myself, although a bit later since I'm busy right now and don't have enough time.
- (NOTE: When I wrote my first comment on this talk page, the article was 95% verbatim from references and had the exact same info as the border attack article. IT's changed since then, but could use some work, which I'm fine with doing). --Activism1234 17:23, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, the other attack uses many sources, but many of them focus on the raid of the military base, not the "border attack". I dont mind there being an article on the border attack, but it should be a sub-article of the raid, which in turn should be a sub-article of a wider article on the most recent flare-up of violence in the Sinai, which in turn should be a sub-article about the security situation in Sinai since last year's revolt, and that in turn should be a sub-article about security in Egypt since the revolt. nableezy - 17:48, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think Inception is needed here. I think it's better to have just one article on this attack, since it has enough info. The "border attack" in the title was used to refer to attacks on both sides of the border - the Egyptian and Israeli one. It wasn't used to refer to an attack solely on the Israeli side, or Egyptian side. --Activism1234 18:49, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
- You arent getting my point, but Im tired of explaining myself. Ill give it one more try. The actual event was the attack on the Egyptian military base. That is what the article should be focused on. The "infiltration attempt" is part of the aftermath of that attack. Not the other way around as your article makes it. Which is why I said your article takes a mostly Egyptian story and presents it in Israel-centric terms. nableezy - 18:54, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Um no, they didn't plan to just attack an Egyptian military base, and then say, "Oh cool, we just stole 3 army jeeps! Let's try to cross over to the Israeli border, see what these bad boys can do!" The whole attack was coordinated, and there is no proof contrary to that. The article presents the information on the attacks relating to both the Egyptian side of the border and Israeli side. --Activism1234 22:15, 9 August 2012 (UTC)- I thought "um no" was uncivil. Must have you confused with somebody else. I dont care enough about the articles to explain myself more, so Ill leave you be now. nableezy - 23:48, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm, guess you're rubbing off on me. In seriousness though, you're right, and it's been striked out. Shouldn't have written that. --Activism1234 23:50, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
- I thought "um no" was uncivil. Must have you confused with somebody else. I dont care enough about the articles to explain myself more, so Ill leave you be now. nableezy - 23:48, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
- You arent getting my point, but Im tired of explaining myself. Ill give it one more try. The actual event was the attack on the Egyptian military base. That is what the article should be focused on. The "infiltration attempt" is part of the aftermath of that attack. Not the other way around as your article makes it. Which is why I said your article takes a mostly Egyptian story and presents it in Israel-centric terms. nableezy - 18:54, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think Inception is needed here. I think it's better to have just one article on this attack, since it has enough info. The "border attack" in the title was used to refer to attacks on both sides of the border - the Egyptian and Israeli one. It wasn't used to refer to an attack solely on the Israeli side, or Egyptian side. --Activism1234 18:49, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, the other attack uses many sources, but many of them focus on the raid of the military base, not the "border attack". I dont mind there being an article on the border attack, but it should be a sub-article of the raid, which in turn should be a sub-article of a wider article on the most recent flare-up of violence in the Sinai, which in turn should be a sub-article about the security situation in Sinai since last year's revolt, and that in turn should be a sub-article about security in Egypt since the revolt. nableezy - 17:48, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Merger
[edit]I suggest this article be merged into Operation Eagle. The Egyptian military's actions since 7 August ar' clearly part of that wider campaign and they havn't declared a new "War on Terror in Sinai", so the name seems to be OR. Alternately, we could re-name this article something like "(August) 2012 Egyptian campaign in Sinai".
Thoughts? ~Asarlaí 02:56, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
- Agree it should be merged into Operation Eagle as a new section on the August 2012 intensification, but don't mind either if it stays here. Also feel that some info from 2012 Egyptian-Israeli border attack "Operations" section can be added here, as a lot of this article is copied from media outlets (which could be cleaned up otherwise). --Activism1234 02:15, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- Clarification - Support merge --Activism1234 18:03, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- Weak support - those two indeed should be merged, but another article named "Sinai insurgency" should be created to include "Operation Eagle" and the insurgent attacks too.Greyshark09 (talk) 20:12, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'd support such an article and wouldn't mind contributing to it in a sandbox to build it up. It can also include the spread of weapons, both before and after the Arab Spring, as well as the radicalization of the Bedouin tribes in the Sinai (not just attacks). --Activism1234 21:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- Support per nominator. Whether or not there are two articles as Greyshark proposes, the current name should be changed since it's based on original research (haven't seen this name in any mainstream news source, including the Egyptian media) and violates WP:NPOV. --Al Ameer son (talk) 17:41, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- strong support abslute OR, cant believe this existsLihaas (talk) 09:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Support - they should be merged and I'm with creating a new article including all the terror attacks and military operations in Sinai whether before or are the revolution. --Zo3a (talk) 20:55, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
It seems like everyone and the creator of the article supports a merge. I have merged info into Operation Eagle, and ifno that still remains here which may be relevant can be added to that article as well before this one is deleted. --Activism1234 21:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC)