Template:Did you know nominations/Richard Burn (Indologist)

Richard Burn (Indologist)

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• ... that Sir Richard Burn was awarded the Kaiser-i-Hind gold medal for famine services in India?
• Alt 1 ... that Richard Burn from Liverpool won the Kaiser-i-Hind gold medal for famine services in India?

• Reviewed: At Fillmore East

Created by Philafrenzy (talk), Edwardx (talk). Nominated by Edwardx (talk) at 21:36, 31 May 2014 (UTC).

• What are "famine services"? I think the term makes the hook unnecessarily obscure. Yoninah (talk) 22:51, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

• There was a serious famine in Uttar Pradesh/Uttarakhand (the United Provinces) in 1907-08. As a senior civil servant of the British Raj in the UP government, Burn would have been involved in administering the relief effort. Millions still died though. Beyond that, I don't think we know exactly what he did. He certainly did not run any feeding centres personally. Philafrenzy (talk) 23:14, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
• I suppose that famine servies could mean either famine relief or famine prevention. The source just states "famine services". Another source states "...working against famine in the United Provinces". Perhaps we could use "famine relief work" in the hook? Edwardx (talk) 23:18, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

• Alt 2 ... that Richard Burn from Liverpool won the Kaiser-i-Hind gold medal for services in India? Philafrenzy (talk) 23:54, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

• New enough, long enough, adequately referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. QPQ done. I'm just a little surprised that you chose to focus on this award for something that probably should be "famine relief work" but obstinately calls itself "famine services". It seems to me that Burn's work on the The Imperial Gazetteer of India is his most important and lasting contribution, and there is some interesting stuff about how difficult it was to compile it. Yoninah (talk) 21:56, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

You may be right but I don't think we have exactly pinned down which bits he did and he was the third to have a go at the new edition and so it was not solely referable to him. Philafrenzy (talk) 22:06, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

• ALT3: ... that Richard Burn, third editor of The Imperial Gazetteer of India, revealed that it took years of discussion to settle on the work's form, due to the Indian government's typical slowness? Yoninah (talk) 10:25, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

That ALT3 hook seems reasonable. I'll leave it to someone else to choose. Edwardx (talk) 17:18, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

• New reviewer needed. Yoninah (talk) 17:27, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

• Review for ALT3. Although I fully respect and agree with Yoninah's review of 11 June, I understand the rules say I have to start again because that editor has suggested ALT3. Article created 26 May, expanded 27 May, nominated 31 May. I accept this as being within the 5 days, whether or not it is a few hours outside the 5 days. It is long enough. The map image is free (but see issue 1 below about the Burns portrait). No problems with disambig links or with external links. ALT3 is supported by citation #4, for which the online link provides only a preview (not all of the required pages 364-373) so I'm taking this citation as offline AGF. Issues: (1) On the article page, the fair-use image of Burns is non-free, which is permissible for DYK. On the image filepage (File:Sir Richard Burn 1871 - 1947.jpg) the fair-use documentation is fine IMO, but the size of the image is excessive for a fair-use image. This is a beautiful and rather moving picture from the National Portrait Gallery, and I'm sorry because it's a pity to reduce it, but we have to or WP could lose it, and anyway we still have the link on the filepage to the original. It will have to be reduced before we can pass this nom. (2) ALT3 is too long at 209 205 characters excluding ellipse, the limit being 200 characters. Note: this review is incomplete because I have run out of time; to be finished tomorrow. Checks for copyvio and close paraphrasing are not yet done.--Storye book (talk) 16:26, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

• ALT3 tweaked again, should be under 200 now. You could remove "(1909)" too, if you want. Edwardx (talk) 18:18, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

• Thank you, Edwardx. ALT3 is now 195 characters. I agree that it doesn't need "(1909)".--Storye book (talk) 09:47, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

• All external links for citations checked for sources of copyvio or close paraphrasing. None found. I have adjusted size of image of Burns on its image file as per issue 1 above. All issues now resolved. Good to go. --Storye book (talk) 10:00, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

• Trimmed "(1909)" in the interests of brevity. Edwardx (talk) 12:15, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

• Thank you, Edwardx. Still good to go. --Storye book (talk) 12:25, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I've pulled this from prep. We can't be making, on MP, a casual mention of "the Indian government's typical slowness" as if that were well-known fact, especially since there's nothing to indicate that it's really talking about the Indian govt of 150 years ago, not today (and even if that were clear, it's still not OK unless there's widespread agreement among historians or something). A characterization like this needs to be distanced with quote marks (and maybe attributed, in the hook) and needs to be placed in time, IMO. EEng (talk) 13:40, 22 June 2014 (UTC)