Template talk:Local councils of Malta and Gozo

discussion moved from Wikipedia:Malta-related topics notice board

I'm going to try making a Malta LC template like Template:Japan, etc, to nav between the LC's Srl 05:25, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

{{Template:Malta-LocalCouncils}} .. Note that only Għasri and Mtarfa have the template on them.. so try going between those two! Note: is the division of Gozo acceptable to all? What do you think? I want to make sure people are happy before putting these on all of the sites. ALso it's starting to seem a little schizo because we have these terms (on wikipedia) that overlap in actuality, but without any description (in English) about why or in what circumstances these are interchangable.

1. Local Councils
2. Towns in Malta (some of them are ibliet not irħul)
3. Village (in the descriptions of the villages)

Srl 21:33, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, Għajn Tuffieħa isn't its own LC but it is a village. Should we have separate categories for: LC, town/village, and city? Help please! Srl 09:47, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

• I believe we should stick to Local Councils. St. Lucia's to me sounds strange.. i think St. Lucia or Sta. Lucia.. better seek alternative advise. the 's is sure exta.

The division of Gozo is ok. Better ignore Comino which falls under the direct discretion of one of the Gozo local councils (forgot which one??)

Maltesedog 10:10, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

English vs Maltese names

User:Marcus1234 notes in an edit: revert a series of edits; this is the English wikipedia. Noting this here so it doesn't thrash back and forth. We need to give enough information to find the LC in the case where the forms differ, such as Cospicua/Bormla. But this is English wikipedia. mt wikipedia would be happy to have more work done on its templates though. 「ѕʀʟ·✎」 00:09, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Changed to use Template:Navbox

I think we should try and re-use good templates where possible. The Template:Navbox is made for such navigation boxes, so I changed this template to use it. --85.73.189.113 22:18, 22 October 2007 (UTC) Previous unsigned comment by ----Inkiwna 21:57, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Victoria vs. Rabat

revert war in progress. Please discuss here before making any changes! 「ѕʀʟ·✎」 21:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the link here should follow the name of the article it links to. If the article on Rabat/Victoria is mis-named make your arguments there and once that is changed update the template.--Inkiwna 18:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Srl, note that on the English Wikipedia we use the English language name; which is Victoria not Rabat. WP:ENGLISH. - Zimevones (talk) 12:40, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Zimevones, your comment here is valid, but changing the template without seeking consensus here might have been rash, in view of the edit war. Seeing that on one opposed my idea that the link should follow the target page name, that Victoria and Rabat are more like alternatives than translations, but if anything Victoria originates in English while Rabat in Maltese, and that tha Local Council calls itself Victoria on its own web site. I agree with you that the link (and the name of th page?) should be Victoria (Rabat). But to make sure we do not have edit wars, lets wait for a few (10) days for any reasonable counter arguments before changing. I'll put a notice on the Malta Notice board too. --Inkiwna (talk) 15:15, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

English Spelling

It appears that 78.133.74.103 has taken English spelling too far, using Spellings that are mere bad phonetic representations. In order to fix this template from its current half Maltese half English spellings, each town currently using Maltese spelling should be cross checked with the English spellings in current usage by for example by the Times of Malta and the English version of the Maltese laws. --Inkwina (talk · contribs) 20:36, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the English spellings used are the correct ones - check the sources used on the articles. Kyarichy (talk) 10:05, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, They are wrong! The references used are mistaken Pleas see: http://www.mjha.gov.mt/mjha_lc/default.htm and the sites of individual councils (Most have an English website too) Please list the ones you think are contentious and I will try to find references a quickly as I can.

--Inkwina (talk · contribs) 14:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

You are not in a position to decide what is right and wrong. As long as the sources used back up the information, there is no reason to change. Now stop embarassing yourself. Kyarichy (talk) 15:27, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi Kyarichy, the sources you are citing are archaic. They are based on the concept of bending pronunciations to fit phonemes in the phonetic system of the English Language. The world has moved on since then. In any case, if you feel that you must make such major changes it's always advisable to discuss them before. --Joelemaltais (talk) 16:56, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Please Kyarichy, stop vandalizing the official names of the cities and towns of Malta. I agree with Joe on the rest of the points. Please revert them back asap cause they are ridiculous and before you did such major edits you should have discussed them with us first! thx --Gian (talk) 18:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, these renamings are incorrect. This is a major change that is being made and should have gone through proper channels of discussion. --Son (talk) 02:02, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Prefixes in place names

During a related discussion at Talk:Malta#Names of Communities, there was some discussion regarding the use of Maltese-language prefixes on this template. They aren't used in the titles of the articles linked to, but are piped in such a way that the link goes directly to the unprefixed form while displaying the prefix in the text (e.g. the entry for "Ħ'Attard" just links to Attard). So is this correct usage in English, or would it be better to remove the prefixes and just use the current article titles directly? This seems to have been somewhat controversial in the past, but I don't see any consensus on which is better so far, so let's discuss it. Alzarian16 (talk) 22:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Allow me to propose the following as guidelines:

Country

The name of the country is "Malta" as is the name of the larger island. Editors are expected to make the disctinction clear and to avoid making references to such things as "Greater Malta", "Malta and Gozo", "the Maltese Islands" or "the Maltese archipelago" (the latter being permissable when the topic deals with geography).

Islands

(a) The names used for the three inhabited islands are "Malta", "Gozo" (MT: Għawdex) and "Comino" (MT: Kemmuna).

(b) For the uninhabited islands:

(i) whenever possible it is rendered analogically in English (e.g. Kemmunett is rendered as "Cominotto")

(ii) single names are retained (e.g. Filfla)

(iii) names accepted in English are used (e.g. "Fungus Rock" for Il-Ġebla tal-Ġeneral)

(iv) where Ġebla is part of the name this is rendered as "Rock", Gżira (not to be confused with the town) as "Island" (e.g. "Manoel Island").

Towns

(a) As a general rule Maltese orthography is retained including the use of special characters (ċ, ġ, ħ, għ and ż) and accented vowels (e.g. à) to ensure accuracy and respect for the subject unless there is established usage in verifiable reliable sources in English. Compare to the Polish convention.

(b) Italianised and Italianate names are considered to be better established in English. Thus, "Cospicua" rather than Bormla, "Senglea" rather than l-Isla, "Marsaskala" rather than Wied il-Għajn, "Paola" rather than Raħal Ġdid. "Birgu" is, however, considered as having established usage in English and is preferred over "Vittoriosa". This does not apply, however, to spelling (e.g. "Marsaskala" not "Marsascala", "Birżebbuġa" not "Birzebbugia").

(c) Names given in English during the British colonial era are preferred. This, "Victoria" for Rabat in Gozo.

(d) As regards Maltese grammar, articles are not used (e.g. "Żebbuġ" not Ħaż-Żebbuġ, "Mdina" not L-Imdina). Possessives are retained (e.g. "Ta' Xbiex" and "Ta' Ġiorni") but not in combination with an article (e.g. "Sliema" not Tas-Sliema, "Sannat" not Ta' Sannat). This rule is applied even if it the name needs disambiguation (e.g. between Ħaż-Żebbuġ and "Iż-Żebbuġ").

Demdem (talk) 12:43, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I think those principles hold up pretty well. In effect they're extremely similar to displaying the name in the template as it appears in the relevant article title, so seem to make sense both intuitively and based on the specific circumstances. Given how little response this thread is receiving so far (surprising given the previous disputes), it might be worthwile making the relevant changes and seeing if anybody objects, otherwise we could be waiting for a response for some time. Alzarian16 (talk) 21:47, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Was this implemented? I still see some anomalies in the template:

Articles present on:

   Il-Birgu (Città Vittoriosa)
   Il-Fgura
   Il-Furjana (Floriana)
   Il-Gudja
   Il-Gżira
   Il-Ħamrun
   L-Iklin
   L-Isla (Senglea, Città Invicta)
   Il-Kalkara
   Il-Marsa
   L-Imdina (Città Notabile) <- Common form is Mdina
   Il-Mellieħa
   L-Imġarr <- Common form is Mġarr
   Il-Mosta
   L-Imqabba <- Common form is Mqabba
   L-Imsida <- Common form is Msida
   L-Imtarfa <- Common form is Mtarfa
   In-Naxxar
   Tal-Pietà
   Il-Qrendi
   Ir-Rabat
   Is-Siġġiewi (Città Ferdinand)
   Tas-Sliema
   Is-Swieqi
   Ix-Xgħajra
   Iż-Żejtun (Città Beland)
   Iż-Żurrieq

"Hal-" ("village") still present on (rahal is the full form of hal):

   Ħ'Attard
   Ħal Balzan
   Ħad-Dingli
   Ħal Għargħur
   Ħal Għaxaq
   Raħal Ġdid (Paola)
   Ħal Kirkop
   Ħal Lija
   Ħal Luqa
   Ħal Qormi
   Ħal Safi
   Ħal Tarxien
   Ħaż-Żabbar (Città Hompesch)
   Ħaż-Żebbuġ (Città Rohan)

"ta'" present on as accepted usage:

   Ta' Xbiex

Rhialto (talk) 08:10, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Offical and non-officials

This is the template of the local councils of Malta established through the Local Councils Act which also establishes hamlets. Therefore, they are either to be included here because they feature in that Act or they shouldn't. I can't figure where the distinction "official" and "non-official" (sic) comes from. Demdem (talk) 18:09, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Articles and hamlets

The template as it is now is rather confusing. I think it should be amended as follows:

• The articles should be removed. They are used in the Maltese language, but this is the English not Maltese Wikipedia. Moreover, the articles are not even used on the Maltese Wikipedia template!
• The "Hamlets without Administrative Committees" should be removed. While the "Local Councils" and "Administrative Committees" are firmly established by law (see here), the "Hamlets" in this template seem to be a random list of localities around the Maltese Islands.

What are others' views on this? --Xwejnusgozo (talk) 21:17, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Since no one objected in nearly a month, I made above changes. --Xwejnusgozo (talk) 11:29, 24 April 2015 (UTC)