Talk:South Bend, Indiana

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South Bend, Indiana was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 20, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed
February 14, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed
May 1, 2021	Good article reassessment	Delisted

Current status: Delisted good article

United States: Indiana Mid‑importance

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Montage Needed

Evansville, South Bend, and Fort Wayne both now need montages now that Indianapolis has one. 19:26, 30 July 2013 (CDT)

Perspectives on South Bend

Public bus fares are .75 including a transfer. Sadly, Scottsdale Mall was torn down, but a nice new shopping complex has replaced it. The [Morris Preforming Arts Center http://morriscenter.org] is located downtown. Recently the city rebuilt the police station and jail. The four public high schools are Riley, Clay, Adams, and Washington. The two hospitals are St. Joseph and Memorial. Theaters are Showplace 16. Newspapers are [South Bend Tribune http://www.sbtinfo.com] and a pennysaver type free newspaper called [Michiana Shopper Newspaper http://www.michianashopper.com]. Radio stations are too numerous to mention but there are 5 TV stations, [WNDU CH16 http://www.wndu.com], [WSBT CH22 http://www.wsbt.com], [WSJV CH28 http://www.fox28.com], [WNIT CH34 http://www.wnit.org] and two smaller low powered TV stations WBND and WUPN.

Restaurant row is located on the northeast side of the city, with may fine restaurents located downtown as well as the west side of the city.

[unsigned]

Thanks for erasing my comment. Here's a list of the fine restaurants on Ireland Road:

Applebee's, 1150 E Ireland Rd
Burger King, 2027 E Ireland Rd
China Garden, 910 E. Ireland Rd
TGI Friday's, 2042 E. Ireland Rd.
Long John Silver's, 920 E Ireland Rd.
Pizza Hut, 209 E Ireland Rd.
Steak N Shake, 1315 E Ireland Rd.
Taco Bell, 231 E. Ireland Rd.

Feel free to cut and paste my list when you email the Michelin Star reviewers. Jkonrath 16:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You may or may not know this, but Wikipedia is NOT an advertising site. We don't list addresses for individual venues unless they are one of a kind (and maybe not even then). Though I would like more people to come live in my city, this is written like an advertisement, which is not a part of any encyclopedia.

And WSJV and WNIT are in Elkhart, not SB. CatMan 21:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WNIT and WSJV studios are in Elkhart, but their transmitters are in South Bend so they are considered South Bend stations for that reason. Also, WNIT will in 2009 be relocating its studios into the former WSBT facility in downtown south bend. 69.213.180.166 (talk) 19:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)zeke55.[reply]

So, we have definitely established that there are restaurants in South Bend. I was beginning to wonder... And for the love of god, don't forget the new Chick-fil-A at 4555 S. Michigan Street (just off Ireland road). I hear a Texas Roadhouse is going up as well. And as far as I know, this is a talk page, and the person listing the restaurant addresses was attempting to make a point regarding many restaurants on Ireland Road. cntrlaltdel33t 15:20, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would think, if we do choose to put in anything about SB restaraunts, it should only touch on them lightly, not list all of them, put in some from streets other than East Ireland Road, and not give the exact addresses. That's just my opinion though, so it's not like it matters or anything. CatMan 22:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Music legacy

Someone requested earlier that South Bend's contributions to music be discussed. The comment was unduly erased. I am reinserting the request. — Lumbercutter 02:16, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Under "Arts and Culture" -> "Culture", the following text has been inserted at the end of the paragraph:

In 2014, the main act was Faith +1, whose hit singles include "I wasn't born again (yesterday)", "Jesus Touched Me", and from their inaugural self-titled LP, "Pleasing Jesus".

This sounds suspiciously like parody content inspired by South Park Season 7 Episode 9 "Christian Rock Hard". Unless an actual band (who plays the listed songs, no less) exists, I recommend it be removed. User:TimothyOnline 16:08, 23 Dec 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

The article is rapidly acquiring information, and could make a decent encyclopedia article at some point, but it does not meet the Good Article criteria yet, and will not be listed at this time. The biggest issues with the article are with criterion 1 (prose), criterion 2 (verifiability and citations), and criterion 3 (completeness). I don't see any significant issues with criterions 4 (neutrality), 5 (stability), or 6 (images). Some more specific issues follow:

The lead section is far too short. It should be a good summary of the article's content. It might help editors to review WP:LEAD for tips in this area.
The geography section seems kind of fragmented and disordered. It focuses more on driving distance to Chicago and its relation to other states, instead of the actual geography of its own region. There's also lots of little spelling/grammar errors: "The cities coordinates" should be "The city's coordinates", and "moderating the temperature in summer." doesn't seem to make much sense.
The history section starts off somewhat interesting, but isn't anywhere near complete. It kind of leaves us off in the mid 1950s and ignores the latter half of the 20th century, and the 21st century. The companies that have "developed in the area" really don't explain how this is significant to the city itself.
Most of the history section is pretty much unsourced. One specific issue is the lack of citation regarding the, "first service of electrified streetcars anywhere in the world", which seems to be in disagreement with Frank Sprague's electric streetcars in Richmond, Virginia in 1888 (see the Richmond article for the source on this one).
Demographics should be moved into its own main section (separate from culture), following guidelines for US city articles. You might also want to check that guideline as well for tips on how to order sections in the article, and what sections are missing from the article. Most notably, there's no government information in the article. This should be added. I would also recommend putting 'sports' into its own main section, instead of a subsection under 'culture'.
The culture section also seems to be listing several 'other points of interest', breaking away from prose. Lists are generally a B-class attribute. The list also contains several external links; only internal wikilinks should appear in article text, and all external links belong in the 'external links' section at the end of the article. Try to keep weasel words and flowery language to a minimum.
Some of the things in the culture section seem to be written more for a tourist guide than an encyclopedia article;
Education: again, what's with the list? Some of these, like Notre Dame, Indiana aren't colleges, but towns or 'unincorporated cities'. Better to talk about the relationships of the colleges and how the relate to the city of South Bend, rather than just listing them.
The list of famous residents is getting a bit long. It might be advisable to move this to a separate page. These lists also tend to attract vandals and other miscreants, like Skip Wright (Whiffle ball hall of famer? Gimme a break!).
Move 'external links' to the end of the article, per WP:MOS.

This is an incomplete list obviously, but should hopefully be useful in getting editors started towards improving this article towards GA status. It might help to take a look at some other towns and cities that are current Good Articles, such as Flagstaff, Arizona or Richmond, Virginia, for a good model of what a GA-class city article should look like. The templates and guidelines at WP:CITIES should also be helpful as well. Cheers! Dr. Cash 02:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Take 2

This article has improved a lot since the last time, and I think is very close to WP:GA at this point. I fixed a couple of minor grammatical and style issues, but there's still a couple of things to work on:

The history section still needs a little more work. It tells a pretty good story of the town, but still leaves the reader hanging at the end, stopping in the 60s, the jumping to 2000, and the only bit from the 80s & 90s is about the new baseball team. Certainly, there's got to be more going on in this town, or are all those rumors about watching the corn grow in Indiana true?

The geography section is good, although the climate is pretty short. I think more can be said about the climate than two sentences. What about more of a description of the seasonal changes in weather, instead of just throwing the numbers into a table on average temps & rainfall? I wonder if you can find the actual historical dates for the absolute high & low record temperates (I've seen this in some city articles)?

'Cityscape' should be added as a subsection within geography. Include some description on the various neighborhoods and parts of the city. Talk about how they are connected and interrelated.

"Ancestries: Germans (17.4%), Polish (10.6%), Irish (10.5%), English (5.8%), United States (3.9%), Hungarian (3.3%) (from City-Data.com)." -- This isn't really a sentence; it's just tabular data presented in prose form, but not really prose. Can anything else be said about these ethnic groups? How did they come to settle in South Bend? Also, the city-data.com site doesn't exactly look like it meets WP:RS; it looks more like a spam linkfarm site. I would recommend trying to find a better source at the US census bureau website.

While it technically doesn't violate the WP:MOS, I think it would be better to eliminate the subsection headers in the education and media sections. The information contained in each subsection should be tied together within the main topic better with actual prose. The subsection headers make everything look more 'listy', and separate.

The information in the 'sister cities' section needs a citation. I'm not sure where this information came from, but the Indiana listing on the sister cities international website does not list any sister cities for South Bend.

See if you can try and make the information in the article flow a bit better together. A lot of the content seems rather isolated, and somewhat bland and boring (just basic information, and nothing fancy). Try to make it sound a bit more interesting to capture the readers attention, without going overly flowery.

I think once these issues are fixed, the article will meet the Good article criteria. I'll put it on hold at WP:GAN until February 5, 2008, so these issues can be addressed. Cheers! Dr. Cash (talk) 04:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately I did not have the time to make all the improvements... Of course, I will continue to work on it. Perhaps the third time will be a charm? cntrlaltdel33t (talk) 23:55, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also found some dead links. Mahanga^Talk 03:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewing this again, I think the article meets the minimum criteria for GA; granted, it's still a long ways from FA status, but I think it's at least a GA. There's still a couple of short sections that could be expanded (history, geography). You might also want to combine the 'sports' section with 'parks and recreation' into a single 'sports and recreation' section, since there's not too much in either, and both are somewhat related. Overall, the article has a good standard of writing and is informative. Good work! Dr. Cash (talk) 18:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello?

I was wondering if any else is watching this page, or interested in updating the history sections with well cited sources. Any takers? cntrlaltdel33t 21:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone added a whole lot of content to the history section, unfortunately it was blatantly copied from the Northern Indiana Center for History website http://www.centerforhistory.org. I have removed the content. cntrlaltdel33t (talk) 20:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ping...? Anyone watching this page besides me? cntrlaltdel33t (talk) 14:53, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Population

How can it's metropolitan area had a population of 316,663, if St. Joseph County 2005 population estimate is 266,160?--Rayc (talk) 23:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The metro area extends outside St. Joe county. Tool2Die4 (talk) 23:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How can the metro population be 316,663 when the MSA also includes Elkhart County, which has a population of 200,000, and parts of Michigan as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.57.24.188 (talk) 03:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The MSA for South Bend is only St. Joseph County (IN) and Cass County (MI), not Elkhart County. BandH2020 (talk) 23:42, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Studebaker

Someone has added several pictures of Studebaker vehicles to the museums section of the article. These seem to clutter up the article, a lot, and might better fit in a Studebaker article. I am planning to restore the article to its previous state if no one objects. cntrlaltdel33t (talk) 22:36, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SouthBendForum

Barek deleted the link to www.southbendforum.com without citing a reason. The forum is the only non-.gov, non-media owned source of information available to South Bend residents. It is not a commercial site and it is a great source for people wanting to know about South Bend because they can discuss the city with its residents. If there's a link for DTSB, there should be one for the forum.--12.70.122.132 (talk) 14:41, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I did give a reason in the edit summary, it read "rv linkspam per WP:ELNO #10 and WP:NOT#REPOSITORY"

WP:ELNO #10 states "Links normally to be avoided ... Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace), chat or discussion forums/groups (such as Yahoo! Groups), USENET newsgroups or e-mail lists." (emphasis added by me)

Also, WP:USCITY states that in external link section of city articles, the official websites should be provided, such as the official city government, the chamber of commerce, and the convention & visitors bureau.

Lastly, per WP:NOT#REPOSITORY, Wikipedia is not a repository of links. As an alternative, WP:EL suggests the use of Open Directory Project (aka DMOZ) which is better suited to hold link directories, and to which this article already contains a link to the South Bend, Indiana page within DMOZ. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:00, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tippecanoe Place

I think that Tippecanoe Place should be mentioned in the article somewhere due to its notability as a landmark both with its relation to the Studebakers as well as now housing one of the classier restaurants in the region. However, I'm reluctant to add it to the article because I don't want to imply that I'm promoting the restaurant. I suppose that it could go under "See also" but it would seem out of place there. Mapsax (talk) 23:15, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say throw it under "Arts and culture". If Tippecanoe Place has its own article, then its notable enough to add into the South Bend article. I like their Sunday brunch, but I don't think you can call it a "classy restaurant" in the article. Crotchety Old Man (talk) 23:30, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Census 2010

The 2010 count is in...

http://tribstar.com/news/x62526035/Census-data-show-Vigo-population-growth

101,168.

Ryoung122 11:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Sister City

South Bend added a new sister city, Guanajuato, Mexico. Not listed on the official page just yet, but can be found from WNDU news report: http://www.wndu.com/localnews/headlines/Today_Mayor_Steve_Luecke_welcomed_delegates_from_South_Bends_new_sister_city_Guanajuato_Mexico_128346883.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.229.85.182 (talk) 02:50, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Name of the airport

An IP renamed the instances of "South Bend Regional Airport" to instead be "South Bend Airport". This was reverted back due to the image clearly showing "Regional" in the name.

However, from what I can see, both names are wrong. In April 2014, the airport announced that it was officially changing its name to "South Bend International" (or "South Bend International Airport" accroding to one newspaper).[1][2][3]]

There appears to be a discussion already started at Talk:South Bend Airport#2014 name change to get consensus on renaming the article. Whichever is determined, I believe the mention in this article should also be updated. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:52, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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City Government Asking For People To Edit Page

http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/city-urges-community-to-help-manage-wikipedia-pages/35567310

Seems kinda shady to me for a organization to encourage others to edit its page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zlassiter (talk • contribs) 07:25, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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First trolley system?

"South Bend was the first community in the United States to have an electrified trolley system (even though it was a few years before it was usable and profitable)."

There is no date or reference for this claim. However, this refutes that claim: "August 30, 1888 The Lafayette IN street railway begins operations, the first successful electric operation in Indiana." from David Chambers, "Lafayette Street Railway Company" 1958.

According to other reports, the first electric trolley was in Scranton, PA, and the second in Lafayette, IN.

I suggest removing the claim.

Dan Bollinger (talk) 15:06, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good article reassessment

South Bend, Indiana

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • GAN review not found

Result: Delisted (t · c) buidhe 20:38, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Has a valid maintenance "citations needed" tag, which is an immediate red flag. May have been a "good article" in 2008, when it was listed, but I feel its current form would need some work in order for it to be validly called a "good article". SecretName101 (talk) 19:41, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delist - In addition to the cleanup tag, there is also stuff that is quite dated. For instance "There are currently plans to extend the data center into a fully operating high tech data hub in the old Studebaker "Ivy Tower" assembly plant next door, creating what will be called the Renaissance District" from 2015. Sections such as Redevelopment are not current, and I don't think we need to have a complete list of places of worship in the article. This just doesn't meet the GA criteria at all. Hog Farm _Talk 03:55, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 31 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Closed early per WP:SNOW. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Calidum 13:56, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

South Bend, Indiana → South Bend – Similarly to cities such as Paris, Manchester, Boston, Chicago, the South Bend in Indiana is by far the most prominent location by this name. The term "South Bend" already redirects to "South Bend, Indiana", so (unless we change the redirect to the disambiguation page) it would only make sense to just locate the article under this name. SecretName101 (talk) 20:23, 31 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Aside from a handful of major cities, US cities are always Placename, State. See WP:USPLACE. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 22:27, 31 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This U.S. placename falls under the WP:USPLACE guideline, and does not qualify under the so-called AP Stylebook exception rule like Boston and Chicago. See also Wikipedia:Perennial proposals#Remove state from US placenames for the rationale for WP:USPLACE. Zzyzx11 (talk) 23:37, 31 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This needs to be proposed at USPLACE. You can totally propose it there. Perhaps it hasn't succeeded yet, but one day we shall triumph! Red Slash 00:07, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:USPLACE. There's an established format here, and there's an incredibly small (styleguide-approved) established handful of major U.S. cities that are exceptions to this. Paintspot Infez (talk) 02:40, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:USPLACE. There's an established naming convention that would need to be changed before breaking the widely-used convention. Hog Farm _Talk 04:17, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Arrows

Are arrows appropriate to utilize on the population and GDP data in the infobox? Many major cities and countries already use these and they seem to be helpful in determining the recent change in said figures. BandH2020 (talk) 02:23, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

LEED Green Indiana University by Matt Cashore.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:23, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removed South Bend population increase in Opening on Feb. 23, 2023

Quite simply, the statement that had been in the opening that South Bend increased its population in the 2010's for the first time in 50 years is FALSE. Firstly, if you check the source attributed to it (which I did), that is NOT what was said in the article. Secondly, if you look at the population box further down in this entry, we can see that the population INCREASED in South Bend in the decade of 1990-2000, again in direct disagreement with this statement. Very, very sloppy work and attribution. I'm sure there are people more interested in this South Bend article than I am. Asc85 (talk) 02:38, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

KKK 1924 fight with Notre Dame

I was looking for more sources to read more of a description about what happened, and I came across a newspaper from June 1924 from a KKK publication. It's definitely an interesting read, with them claiming that the students were beating up women and even hit a baby, "There were several instances where women and in one case a child three years old were innocent victims of the day's outrage? A blow was aimed and fell upon a baby girl"(page 5). They even claimed in one section that the kkk came back to the school the following day with guns and that black people organised themselves to fight back against the KKK with the Notre Dame students and drive them back, "While the battle was on between the Ku Kluxers and Notre Dame students a great number of Negroes organised themselves into unit and gave battle to the hooded ranks driving the Kluxers to shelter (page 4)".

Is this source still worth including, considering how much of it is likely made up? Here's the source if people want to read: "http://bl-libg-doghill.ads.iu.edu/gpd-web/fierycross/1924/1924613.pdf" H.Fornasier (talk) 09:43, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]