Talk:Clarke family murders

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On 28 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Clarke family killings. The result of the discussion was Moved to Clarke family murders.

Title

I question the title since her children were murdered as well.--Jack Upland (talk) 19:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the title should reflect this and maybe read something like this: "Murder of Hannah Clarke and her children" or "The murders of Hannah Clarke, and of Laianah, Aaliyah and Trey Baxter". Let's not forget the children as well, they too were also murdered. --2001:8003:5D0D:C900:BC82:A8F1:E461:DC4F (talk) 04:00, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since he is the more famous person, perhaps it should be Murder/Suicide by Rowan Baxter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.179.159.63 (talk) 09:14, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"incinerated instantly"

What source is being used for the claim that the petrol fire incinerated the children "instantly"? It's a horrific event and as much as we would all wish that the children didn't suffer, the unfortunate likely reality is that it was not instant. Vttale (talk) 20:39, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What's the definition of instant?--Jack Upland (talk) 02:41, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Use of birth name ("maiden" name) and married name

In August 2020, the article changed from naming Hannah in the lead as Hannah Clarke (only) to the current style of Hannah Baxter (nee Clarke). According to the edit summary when this change occurred "sources use both names". However, the only sources I can find self-report the Hannah Baxter naming as mistaken on the media outlet's part. See, for example an early report in Brisbane Times.^[1] I would therefore suggest that these are not very reliable sources to support this as her name. We should not just take it for granted that she ever used that name, but even if she did, there's apparently no source to say so, and many clear sources saying she had not used it for some (uncertain amount of) time prior to her death.

Given that from the time of the article's creation in Feb 2020 until 25 August 2020, "Hannah Clarke" alone was used - without demur from any User - I propose to take it back to that form, unless an editor supplies a RS, or there are other strong objections. I see an editor 49.198.73.87 tried earlier and was reverted, but I think the onus needs to be on those who believe 'Baxter' should stay as her name to provide a source, as by far the vast majority of sources name her as Clarke, and just Clarke. Thanks 49.177.64.138 (talk) 06:06, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Crockford, Toby; Lynch, Lydia; McElroy, Nicholas; Wuth, Robyn (20 February 2020). "Hannah was 'excited' for 2020 with her kids. They only got 50 days". Brisbane Times. Retrieved 4 May 2021. Clarification: This story previously named the children's mother as Hannah Baxter. The Queensland Police Service has since informed media she had legally been using her maiden name 'Clarke' and no longer used her married name of Baxter.

Surname of Children

This article uses their mother's maiden name for the murdered children, so they should be listed as Clarke instead of Baxter: "Ms Bentley found police and child safety officers failed to undertake a "real assessment" of the risk of harm to the Clarke children. The article, sadly, also confirmed that the Clarkes were beyond help. 2001:8003:AD13:F800:A0B5:BAA3:6CF7:52BF (talk) 12:43, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 28 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Clarke family murders. There is a consensus to not follow the WP:DEATHS essay in this case as despite there being no conviction secured due to the manner the perpetrator died, the case has been consistently reported as murder(s) post event. – robertsky (talk) 04:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Murder of Hannah Clarke → Clarke family killings – Clarke was not the only fatality; her children died as well. It was not a "murder", as there was no conviction due to the perpetrator's suicide. Lettlre (talk) 17:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, her kids died as well. PARAKANYAA (talk) 17:38, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Death has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:28, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:29, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom.

MountainDew20 (talk) 23:22, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support because the children died as well. I don't agree that it wasn't a murder, but that doesn't matter.--Jack Upland (talk) 23:56, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, I meant that it was not a "murder" in that there was no official conviction that would allow us to call it a murder. Obviously it was a mass murder Lettlre (talk) 01:32, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support move, but would support move to "Clarke family murders". The murderer is deceased so lack of conviction is not relevant, was widely referred to as murder in the media. AusLondonder (talk) 15:34, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah if the perpetrator is dead there's not really an issue with calling it that if the sources do, I think? Not sure. PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Clarke family murders. If these weren't murders because there was no formal conviction, then presumably such killings as those by Jack the Ripper weren't either! Sometimes we have to just use common sense. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:35, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Clarke family murders - If we need a good reason to ignore the usual policy of requiring a conviction, there appear to be at least a few news publications using this title or a version of it: [1] [2] [3] ASUKITE 18:40, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Bris-times-1] Crockford, Toby; Lynch, Lydia; McElroy, Nicholas; Wuth, Robyn (20 February 2020). "Hannah was 'excited' for 2020 with her kids. They only got 50 days". Brisbane Times. Retrieved 4 May 2021. Clarification: This story previously named the children's mother as Hannah Baxter. The Queensland Police Service has since informed media she had legally been using her maiden name 'Clarke' and no longer used her married name of Baxter.

[1]