Talk:List of sheriffs of London

Here are some HTML sources that contain lists of Sheriffs of London. WARNING they are different

year	HTML	Publication if different	Notes
1603	/A survey of London (John Stow, 1842 (orig 1603))	Stow, John (1842) [1603]. Thoms, William J. (ed.). A Survey of London. Whittaker and co. pp. 185–199.)	Data extracted and placed in sub-page so that it can be easily read (there are some OCR errors)
1773	Noorthouck, John (1773). "Addenda: The Mayors and Sheriffs of London (to 1773)". A New History of London: Including Westminster and Southwark. pp. 889–893. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
1806	/The history and survey of London vol 3 (B Lambert, 1806)	Lambert, B. (1806). The history and survey of London and its environs (IV Volumes). Vol. 3. T. Hughes and M. Jones. p. 352–366.	Data extracted and placed in sub-page so that it can be easily read (there are some OCR errors)
1826	Allen, Thomas (1828). The history and antiquities of London, Westminster, Southwark, and parts adjacent. Vol. 2. Cowie and Strange. pp. 273–280. {{cite book}}: Text "published by Tufts Digital Library" ignored (help)
2000+	Staff. "Mayors and Sheriffs of London, 1273-1602". www.tudorplace.com.ar.		A less reliable sources

Earliest centuries

superseded by the table above

Sources currently in the article. The first is cited the second is in external links. A: Noorthouck, John (1773). "Addenda: The Mayors and Sheriffs of London (to 1773)". A New History of London: Including Westminster and Southwark. pp. 889–893. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) covers the years up to 1774 B:Staff. "Mayors and Sheriffs of London, 1273-1602". patp.us. A copy of this list can be found at Staff. "Mayors and Sheriffs of London, 1273-1602". www.tudorplace.com.ar. They cite: Rhys, Ernest (ed.). The Survey of London by John Stow, Citizen of London,. Everyman's Library. London: J.M. Den & Sons. Has list of mayors and sheriffs through 1602. [There is a PD copy of John Stow's book at the Internet Archive the net (different publisher editor and year): Stow, John (1842) [1603]. Thoms, William J. (ed.). A Survey of London. Whittaker and co.] Gairdner, James, ed. (1876). William Gregory's Chronicle of London, in The Historical Collections of a Citizen of London in the 15th Century. The Camden Society. Valerie Hope. My Lord Mayor - 800 Years of London's Mayoralty (© Corp of London 1989). London: Weidenfeld & Nicholson. ISBN 0297795198. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help). Also: C: Allen, Thomas (1828). The history and antiquities of London, Westminster, Southwark, and parts adjacent. Vol. 2. Cowie and Strange. pp. 273–280. covers the years up to 1827 Allen, Thomas (1828). "The history and antiquities of London, Westminster, Southwark, and parts adjacent". {{cite web}}: Text "published by Tufts Digital Library" ignored (help) cleaned HTML version of the ebook. D: Lambert, B. (1806). The history and survey of London and its environs (IV Volumes). Vol. 3. T. Hughes and M. Jones. p. 352–366. covers the years to 1806. If we take a year 1273-4 that is in all four sources: W:Wikipedia 1273 Nicholas Wynchester, Henry Coventre 1274 Lucas Patincourt, Henry Frowyke 1275 Johan Horne, Rauffe Blount A:Noorthouck, John (1773) 1273 Rychard Parys, John Bedyll 1274 Johan Horne, Walter Potter 1275 Nich. Wynchester, Henry Coventre B:Mayors and Sheriffs of London, 1273-1602 1273-4 John Horne Walter Potter 1274-5 Nicholas Winchester Henry Coventry 1275-6 Lucas Batecorte Henry Frowike C:Allen, Thomas (1828). 1273 Johan Horne, Walter Potter 1274 Nich. Wynchester, H. Coventre 1275 Lucas Patincourt, H. Frowyke D:Lambert, B. (1806) 1273 Rychard Parys, John Bedyll 1274 Johan Home, Walter Potter 1275 Nic. Wynchester, Henry Coventre Then A and D agree and B C agree but none of them agree with the Wikipedia dating current list. It needs more analysis because from about 1410 (the start of the reign of Edward IV the results are: W:Wikipedia 1461 Rychard Hemynge, Johan Lambarde 1462 John Locke, George Irelande 1463 William Hampton, Batylmew Jemys A:Noorthouck, John (1773) 1461 Rych. Hemynge, Johan Lambarde 1462 Johan Looke, George Irelande 1463 Will. Hampton, Batylmew Jemys B:Mayors and Sheriffs of London, 1273-1602 1461-2 John Loke George Ireland 1462-3 Bartholomew James William Hampton 1463-4 Thomas Muschamp Robert Basset C:Allen, Thomas (1828). 1461 Johan Looke, George Irelande 1462 Will. Hampton, Bartylmew Jemys 1463 Robert Basset, Thomas Muschamp D:Lambert, B. (1806) 1461 Rych. Hemynge, Johan Lambarde 1462 Johan Looke, George Irelande 1463 Will. Hampton, Bartylmew Jemys 1464 Robert Basset, Thomas Muschamp There is also a list in John Stow (1602) pages 186–169 I have not yet looked through it in detail but it seems to match A and D which is strange because it is cited by B.

I wondered if it could be a dating issue along the lines of start of year (Old Style and New Style dates) but on checking into this the Wikiepdia article Sheriff of London says "They are elected at the Midsummer Common Hall" and Howell, Thomas Bayly; Howell, Thomas Jones; Cobbett, William; Jardine, David (1811). Corbets complet collection of state trials (From the Thirty-fourth to the Thirty-sixth year of the reign of King Charles II). Vol. 9. R. Bagshaw. p. 191. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) confirms that this has been the custom from time immemorial, so it is not a start of the Julian year issue.

Thoughts? -- PBS (talk) 14:08, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

It won't be a Gregory/Julian issue, but I wonder if there is confusion between the year of election and the year of service. Motmit (talk) 15:35, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I am still working on transcribing a couple of the sources into easily read formats. However one line of attack is to look at well known sheriffs and Lord Mayors who have articles on Wikipedia and check for additional sources for those. The first one that sprung to mind was Dick Wittington. It includes this source

• Riley, Henry Thomas, ed. (1868). "Election of Richard Whityngton to the Shrievalty". Memorials of London and London life, in the XIIIth, XIVth, and XVth centuries. Being a series of extracts, local, social, and political, from the early archives of the City of London, A.D. 1276-1419. Corporation of the City of London. pp. 533, 534. OCLC 884588. the said Mayor chose Richard Whytyndone, [sic] Alderman...to be Sheriff...of London for the ensuing year.

"On Sunday, the Feast of St. Matthew the Apostle [21 September], in the 17th year etc., in presence of ..." (in 17th Year of Richard II of England) Richard came to the throne on 22 June 1377 So the first year of his reign was from 22 June 1377 to 21 June 1388 so we add 16 to 1377 = 1393. Which is the same year as is derived in the heading of the footnote in the secondary source that footnotes the primary source. So assuming that Dick took up office in that year then he was a sheriff in the year 1393-1394. The sources listed above contain the following:

• Stow (1603)
  • 1392 Thomas Newington, William Stondon
  • 1393 Richard Whitinffton, John Hadley
  • 1394 Thomas Knoles, John Froshe
• Noorthouck (1773)
  • Johan Chadworth, Henry Vamere
  • 1393 Gib. Manfelde, Tho. Newyngtyn
  • 1394 Rich. Whyttington, Drew Barentyne
  • 1395 Wyllyam Brampton, Tho. Knolles
• Lambert (1806)
  • 1392 Johan Chadworth, Henry Vamere
  • 1393 Gib. Manfelde, Tho. Newyngtyn
  • 1394 Rich Whyttington, Drew Barentyne
  • 1395 Wyllyam Brampton, Tho. Knolles
• Allen (1828)
  • 1392 Gilb. Manfelde, Tho. Newyngtyn
  • 1393 Rich. Whyttington, Drew Barentyne
  • 1394 Wyll. Brampton, Tho. Knolles
• Tudor (2000+)
  • 1392-3 Gilbert Mawfield, Thomas Neuton or Newenton
  • 1393-4 Richard Whittington, Drewe Barentyne
  • 1394-5 William Brampton, Thomas Knolles

So it looks as if Stow (1603), Allen (1828) (and Tudor that seems to be a copy of Allen with notes from Stow) match on year, Wittington and with the primary source, but do not match on the other Sheriff. Allen (1828) also agrees with the primary source on the name of the second sheriff Drewe Barentyne.

Also pondering on the year question a bit more. If the Noorthouck (1773) and Lambert (1806) are using the formula "Sheriff at the start of the year" (NS or OS) then they too agree with Allen.

If we can find another couple of notable men like Dick Whittington where biographers will have looked at the primary sources and if they agree with Allen, I think we can put this one to bed. --PBS (talk) 01:31, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Here is another source "Walter Thornbury (1878). "The Lord Mayors of London". Old and New London: Volume 1. Institute of Historical Research. Retrieved 06 September 2011. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)" I have not looked at it in detail, it is a secondary source, and seems not to confirm the above, but as always it is difficult to check years without specific dates and citations to primary sources. -- PBS (talk) 08:57, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

If I could add a few thoughts, my experience is that the regnal years were more often confused in the Middle Ages than the annos domini. Starting with a reasonably chronological list of more-or-less annual events, you need to calibrate it from as many firm dates as you can. Also, while it's a firm rule now that Sheriffs serve for only one year, in the Middle Ages, in the English counties, that wasn't so firm as it is now. I don't know how far back we have to go to find a Sheriff of London who served for more than one year. If that had happened only once in a century, it would have created confusion in those compiling lists only a few generations later. I suspect there may be someone in or around the Guildhall Library who has tried to sort out reliable dates for all of the (Lord) Mayors and Sheriffs of London, so far as it can be done. It may be worth asking them. Moonraker (talk) 16:33, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Nicholas Yeo/Goo

[1] has 'Yeo' which seems more plausible than the 'Goo' here previously. (Any relation to the more modern MPs?) Jackiespeel (talk) 16:29, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Sheriffs 1500-2

British History Online at [2] has 'John Hawes Sheriff 1500-1'; here have Johan Hawys Sheriff 1501-2. Can someone clarify? Jackiespeel (talk) 16:30, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

2016 Sheriffs

The appear on the 'edit page' but not the ordinary Article page. Jackiespeel (talk) 19:20, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

A year has slipped somewhere

1688 sheriffs of London

Somewhere between the 16th century and the present time I think a year has got lost. Thomas Offley, for instance (shown for 1554), was chosen in the summer of 1553, but sworn in at Michaelmas (29 September) 1553 to serve from then until Michaelmas 1554, so most of his service was in 1554. The sequence of Sheriffs in that period seems to follow correctly. NOW, we have Mr. Alderman Estlin and Mr. Alderman Russell shown for the year 2016, which is the year in which they were elected,[3] so their equivalent term of service should correspond to the present Year of Grace 2017. That would mean that somewhere in the past 500 years two Sheriffs have been missed out altogether (indecorous), or else they have been squashed together with two other Sheriffs into one place (unseemly). In either case it means that half of the entire list is out of step with the other half (assuming that this mistake only occurs once), and if so, this needs sorting out as it would be a serious source of historical confusion. Is there a different explanation? Eebahgum (talk) 20:59, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Missing Those omitted would appear to be Humphrey Edwin and Samual Thompson in 1688

References

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2022

2600:1007:B1A1:76E8:1C56:C1BE:BE7E:321F (talk) 16:48, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2022

The list is missing the latest two Sheriffs, details below. Note, unusually this year there are two sharing. Links to the City of London website below and if you contact them they can also verify/ assist if you need help:

Sheriffs from 2020 - 2021 Professor Michael Raymond Mainelli, Christopher Michael Hayward ref https://farmerslivery.org.uk/news-events/events/lord-mayor-william-russell-to-serve-an-additional-year-in-office

Sheriffs from 2021 - 2022 Alderman Alison Gowman and Alderman Nicholas Lyons ref https://news.cityoflondon.gov.uk/new-sheriffs-will-work-to-promote-citys-post-pandemic-recovery/

New Sheriffs will work to promote City’s post-pandemic recovery Two City of London Corporation Members have been elected to serve in a historic role dating back to the Middle Ages – and pledged to work to help the Square Mile’s post-pandemic recovery.Alison Gowman and Nicholas Lyons were elected as Sheriffs of the City of London in a socially distanced meeting of Common Hall at London’s Guildhall today.The p... news.cityoflondon.gov.uk

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/List_of_sheriffs_of_London 2A00:23C6:1489:8F01:9C64:6322:D06E:D571 (talk) 08:22, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done PianoDan (talk) 18:56, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2023

I've been requested to create a biography page for former sheriff Derek Edwards - can someone with the necessary privileges please insert a red link for this name in the list of 20th Century Sheriffs for 1989. Zoometra (talk) 20:00, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

@Zoometra: I'd recommend that you begin your work at Draft:Derek Edwards and submit it for review by Article for creation. Backlinks to the article can always be added once it's accepted. Good luck! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 02:24, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. As TechnoSquirrel69 pointed out, backlinks can be added if/when the new article is created. -- Pinchme123 (talk) 22:12, 6 September 2023 (UTC)