Talk:Cyclone Idai

Importance level

I set the importance level of this article to high due to the large impact this system has had. It appears the death toll will continue climb over the next several days. Noah^Talk 13:02, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

I have lowered to Mid for WP:Africa since Idai didnt impact the whole contieant, however, i have assessed it on behalf of the local wikiprojects Mozambique etc.Jason Rees (talk) 13:53, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

@Jason Rees: Okay... I was talking about where someone lowered WPTC's rating to mid. Noah^Talk 14:27, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

High importance seems appropriate for now. Let's see how the disaster unfolds whether it should go any higher. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:18, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Im thinking of Top for Idai now.Jason Rees (talk) 14:32, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

• Support as Idai likely killed over 1000 people in Mozambique and hundreds elsewhere. Additionally, millions of people were severely impacted. That isn't something the average TC accomplishes. Noah^Talk 22:41, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
• Support Idai has shown itself to be one of, if not the worst tropical cyclone disaster in the Southern hemisphere. Its widespread effects are deserving of a spot in the top-importance category. Cooper 22:46, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
• Support Idai was probably one of the most impactful, and if not, most impactful cyclone in the history of the South-west Indian Ocean cyclone basin. As Noah said above, it killed hundreds and possibly thousands of people, along with causing many power outages. If this isn't on high importance or more, I don't know what is. DerpieDerpie:D 22:49, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
• Loose Support If basing the importance of this article against others with top importance it probably wouldn't compare to the worst on the list, however seeing how Cyclone Gafilo is in there, Cyclone Idai should be too. It's done more damage and has a higher fatality rate than most (If not all once numbers are finalized) in this basin. Supportstorm (talk) 23:00, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
• Support Idai is a strong and deadly tropical cyclone, killing hundreds and hundreds of people mostly in Mozambique and millions more were impacted. This has to be notable for sure. Sandy14156 :) 00:38, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
• Support It should be top-level importance. Today's post by Jeff Masters describes it as "Africa's Hurricane Katrina". That's not too far-fetched. It will likely influence disaster preparedness in Africa for ages to come.--Jasper Deng (talk) 01:04, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
• Weak support I'm still 50-50 on this issue. However, given that more than 400 people have already died and possibly more than 1,000 dead, I'm leaning to support. --B dash (talk) 01:45, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
• Strong Support – Idai is still causing an unfolding catastrophe in the region of Southern Africa. This storm appears to be Southern Africa's equivalent of Hurricane Maria, given the current impacts (and Maria was a very bad storm); unfortunately, I think that things are probably going to get worse before it's all over. Idai's effects already merit High level importance; I'm not sure about Top level importance yet (this would require some serious records or a decade/century scale disaster), but that seems to be a discussion for another time. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 07:19, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

• High importance is good for the time being until we can get a better idea of its long term significance. It's easy to get excited over a fun storm to track and convince yourself it's the most important in history so it's best off waiting for the dust to settle and re-visit this matter in a few months. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 22:56, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

• @Yellow Evan: Yes it is easy to get carried away but this system has in all likelihood killed more than 1000 people and is being described as "Africa's Hurricane Katrina". @LightandDark2000: This is being called one of the worst tropical cyclones in the SHEM/Africa on record, as a result, I think it's safe to call it a "decade/century scale disaster" for Mozambique.Jason Rees (talk) 02:41, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Dear God, just how bad is this storm? If it is actually severe enough to be classified as "Africa's Katrina", then we should probably change the importance to Top level. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 19:38, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

From what i understand @LightandDark2000: RSMC La Reuinon were calling it a worse case scienerio.Jason Rees (talk) 20:32, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Impact in Southafrica

The cause of the deadly floods in the Repulic of South Africa aren´t caused by Idai. Instead they were caused by a small Low, which had its center over Central South Africa on 10th March 12UTC. (Map and Satellite Image in german)

http://www1.wetter3.de/Archiv/GFS_Global/2019031012_1_af.gif https://kachelmannwetter.com/de/sat/c957c17147c15feda46592be1d495d8b/top-alarm-15min/20190310-2000z.html

--217.24.225.174 (talk) 13:48, 20 March 2019 (UTC)Lukatz

I have sent an email to the South African Weather Service to check, but I note @Hurricane Noah: that I haven't seen an article saying that it was attributable yet.Jason Rees (talk) 15:27, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2019

141.8.84.218 (talk) 17:40, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

madagascar was not involved!!

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. aboideau^talk 18:19, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2019

The second paragraph of the "International aid" part of this page lists contributions from various states. I recommend that the following sentence and citation be added to flesh out this section:

"IsraAid sent personnel to provide medical care, relief supplies, and psychological care. Personnel were also prepared to help restore access to safe water." E8QLx4L (talk) 12:05, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

My reading of the source is that the relief (at time of the article's publication) had yet to be sent. Espresso Addict (talk) 00:07, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

This source: states that the team is en route to Mozambique. ~ KN2731 {t · c} 03:42, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2019

In international aid section, add following:

Three Indian Navy ships have reached Port Beira with relief material, providing humanitarian assistance to the disaster-affected areas.

Source: https://m.timesofindia.com/india/3-indian-navy-ships-reach-cyclone-hit-mozambique-provide-humanitarian-assistance/amp_articleshow/68503443.cms 106.208.142.144 (talk) 04:43, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done with a rephrase to fit into the paragraph. ~ KN2731 {t · c} 11:45, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Ongoing at ITN

Does this still merit inclusion at ITN? Substantive editing appears to have slowed, though not stopped, and the BBC is no longer providing daily updates. Espresso Addict (talk) 19:51, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

@Espresso Addict: probably doesn't meet criteria anymore, news cycle has run its course. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:20, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, I've removed it. Espresso Addict (talk) 20:26, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Impact

@Cyclonebiskit: Could I suggest possibly merging the two landfall sections together and simply report what occurred in each country? I just feel it would be better organized that way as opposed to having two Mozambique sections. Noah^Talk 18:57, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Went ahead and did this ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:20, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Sub-articles

I am thinking we will likely need sub-articles to cover the impact in Mozambique and the disease outbreak. What does everyone else think? Noah^Talk 13:08, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Wait until the article reaches 100 kB. As most of the impacts were in Mozambique, I don’t think a sub-article is needed. Perhaps for the cholera outbreak, but that is new and ongoing. Considering how long ago the storm was, I doubt there’ll be *much* new info coming out, but I could be very wrong, as I haven’t been editing this article. Thanks BTW to you Hurricane Noah (talk · contribs), and Cyclonebiskit (talk · contribs), and everyone else who has worked on this article. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 13:18, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink: The Zimbabwe section simply needs expanded. Keep in mind that well over 400 people are dead in Zimbabwe. From what I have seen, articles are being released daily with new information. With the amount of destruction, Mozambique may need its own sub-article to prevent the main article from becoming overly detailed. Noah^Talk 16:29, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

True on the potential need for sub-articles, but it's also nice having everything in the same article if possible. The article is at 77 kb right now, a manageable length. Mozambique is only four paragraphs right now, so it wouldn't make the article much shorter if it was split off (and that's where the heaviest damage was). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:41, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Looking for a little clarification on the leed

I'm having some trouble understanding the leed, particularly these two lines: "Idai originated from a tropical depression that formed off the east coast of Mozambique on 4 March. The storm, Tropical Depression 11, made landfall in Mozambique later in the day and remained a tropical cyclone through its five-day trek over land."

Is this saying that the tropical depression made landfall on the day of its formation and intensified to a cyclone while on land? I'm American, so maybe I'm just confused about the definition of a tropical cyclone? I know the hurricane scale is a little different from the cyclone scale, even though they're the same type of storm.

Hopefully someone can educate me or point me in the right direction. Thank you!

Caitlin.swartz (talk) 12:07, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

The meteorological history section (especially the map of the storm's track) cleared up a lot for me. I've also reviewed the Southwest Indian Ocean rating system and I'm wondering if "cyclone" is the right word in "remained a cyclone..."?

I know it might just be semantics, but that's what was so confusing to me initially. To me, the storm's track indicated that it remained a tropical depression over its 5 day track across land.

Obviously, I only have a hobby level interest in meteorology (along with a professional interest in disaster relief), so I don't feel comfortable editing until I get some verification.

ParamediCate (talk) 12:37, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

@ParamediCate: The problem is the MFR has an iron fist when determining what is and isn't a tropical cyclone. In terms of their scale, it wasn't a "Tropical Cyclone". However, by definition, a tropical depression is a tropical cyclone. In the same statement in the MH, tropical cyclone itself is linked rather than a scale. Noah^Talk 13:54, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Sexual exploitation alleg.

@Cyclonebiskit and Hurricanehink: I added a section on the ongoing investigation into sexual exploitation allegations. Definitely something that should be included and expanded upon. Noah^Talk 15:24, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mozambique-women-aid-sexcrimes/un-to-probe-sex-for-food-aid-allegations-after-mozambiques-cyclone-idai-idUSKCN1S21IO

Zimbabwe death update

@Cyclonebiskit, LightandDark2000, and Hurricanehink: I just wanted to inform you that I checked the EM-Dat (newly discovered for me) and found an updated death toll for Zimbabwe of 634. I have changed the toll to reflect that, which upgrades this to the deadliest in SWIO. I also upgraded Zimbabwe to top importance. I noticed the database has a toll of 602 for the second landfall and only 10 for the first (it starts on March 9 which was a day after first landfall, but flooding began a few days before that). As that seems to be more questionable, I did not make an update there. Please note that a table will also have to be added for the disease outbreak (I plan to do that sometime). I would like your opinion on the Mozambique situation. Noah^Talk 03:54, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

I would defer to the other sources for the Mozambique death toll. Unless a more detailed, more recent report is released on the situation in Mozambique, I would leave the Mozambique death toll as it is for now (though it is probably higher than the current figure). LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 03:56, 22 June 2019 (UTC)